Can anyone help provide Lima class 117 bits?

Discussion in 'Wanted' started by Tallpaul70, Nov 2, 2019.

  1. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

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    Hi All,

    I need a few Lima 00 Class 117 bits and pieces to carry out refurbishment of some bodies and chassis I have:
    In total I need:-
    Trailer car bodies 2 off ( if any one has these complete with glazing and interior dividers it will reduce the quantities of those items below) Any livery will be fine!
    Driving car cab glazing 3 off
    Driving car saloon glazing 3 off
    Trailer car glazing one off (not sure if they are different to the driving car glazing above)
    Interior saloon dividers 6 off
    Driving cab/saloon dividers 3 off (not sure if they are different to the saloon dividers above)
    Driving car seating moulding 2 off
    Trailer seating moulding 3 off
    Body to chassis fixing bolts 10 off

    Many thanks
    Paul
     
  2. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi Paul.
    I can't unfortunately help with your request, but I am thinking of a future project with this Class 117 DMU set (yet to be sourced!) as I understand that these units were used on the Southern Region during the late 50's/early 60's, (the 'BR Green' era and region I model) and as far as I know, no-one else other than Lima has manufactured this set. Pics I have seen would seem to indicate the use of the dreaded 'Pizza-cutter' wheels, so they'd have to be replaced, and the few other Lima models I possess with the usual 'pancake' motor have all had the motor replaced and DCC converted, so that would be the way I'd go if I did look at this as a project. I've seen a few complete 3 car sets on that certain auction site for what seems to me to be silly money, bearing in mind their age and condition, so if I were to look at complete wheelset replacement, motor replacement (or even a "Black Beetle" motor bogie swap) to add to the unit purchase cost, I'd be looking to buy at a sensible price. Has your project been economical and easy to get stuff for? I've made complete seating/partition interiors for a Triang 2Bil 2 car unit I updated a few years back, so you could fabricate a complete set for your units at a reasonable price using Plasticard, fiddly but worth it! Glazing-wise, could you cut and glue thin celluloid or similar to the interior of the coach sides? Fixing bolts would probably be British 'BA' screw threads as they were made before the changeover to the now normal Metric sizes, so someone like "Eileens Emporium" might be able to help there, or possibly "Peter's Spares". I'd appreciate your posting a few pics of your conversion/updating so far, if you've time, it'll maybe help me make a decision.
    Keith.
     
  3. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

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    Hi Keith,
    My main knowledge of the use of 117s relates to their use out of Paddington.

    I think (but could be wrong) that they occasionally reached the southern on the Reading to Guilford route (but I think that 119s were the main ones used there) or sometimes they reached Basingstoke from Reading.
    The 119s are similar to 117s from the front but were low density units with passenger doors at the ends of the coaches as against the 117s with doors at every seating bay.
    Bachmann are due to release 117s around April next year and they will be superb but very expensive especially if you need more than one and/or DCC Sound conversion.
    You are right that on the web 117s are asked for at silly prices but sometimes when private sellers have them (most of the high priced items are commercial sellers), they go for reasonable prices especially single cars rather than a set of 3.

    I have been fortunate that I have had quite a few items on the shelf for a number of years, but now retired, I have time to sort them out.

    Re wheels, yes ideally they should be replaced, but they run reasonably on code 100 track, so long as the curves are not too tight. They are no good on code 75 track. Motors I find are a mixed bunch. You have to test every one and replace 60-75%.

    I find the cabs are the most tricky of the glazing. yes saloons you can use other materials.

    I will have to work out other solutions if I cannot source any seats. Partitions are possible in card, but the interior windoms between compartments are tricky to cut!

    Currently my jobs are either piles of bits or re painted and finished, but I will see about some pics of the finished ones.

    Think I have answered most of your points, those I haven't I am not ignoring, just lost the tread!!

    Cheers
    Paul
     
  4. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi Paul.
    I'll have to keep an eye out for 117's then, either in 'complete' form or individual carriages. I'm not very conversant with either EMU's or DMU's to be honest as my primary interest is steam, mainly brought about by a fortnights holiday in Margate about 1959, most of which I spent on Margate and Ramsgate stations! The memory of "Merchant Navies", W/C's, BofB's, Schools etc has been impressed onto my brain ever since, despite only ever having lived in the East Midlands all my life, and being used to the usual LNER/LMS loco's which (to me at least) never quite seemed to cut it against the sight of an unrebuilt "Merchant Navy". I was given to understand that the Class 117's were brought in to cover during the Kent Coast Electrification scheme, though I think Jeff Lynne (SR Man) on this forum will likely know far more about it than my somewhat limited knowledge.
    You're certainly right about any Bachmann model being somewhat expensive, I rather fancy the forthcoming 45 ton breakdown crane, but it's well the wrong side of £200, although having seen pre-production versions at shows, I acknowledge the superb detail.........ought to be motorised at that price though! I'm in no hurry for this possible 117 project as I have several other 'projects' currently in the pipeline, but looking at the price of Hornby wheelsets alone, at around £20+ for 10 it'll soon add up. My experience of the Lima 'Pancake' motor is that it's not very controllable on DC inasmuch as you give it a few volts and nothing happens, a few more and again nothing, a few more and it takes off like a racehorse, so steady starts, even with DCC, are not so easy, hence my conversions using ex-CD drawer drive motors, though these are likely to have a short life on DC unless you fit an inline resistor as they're normally rated at 5 volts, no problem on DCC though, especially if you limit the maximum volts by altering the CV's in the decoder. Let us know how you get on with the project Paul, I'd be most interested.
    Keith.
     
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  5. Matt

    Matt Full Member

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    Ah shame, I recently sold an old Lima 117 that may have been of use. I may have a SE Finecast flush glazing set somewhere if it's of any help?

    Matt
     
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  6. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Just dropped onto Ebay and found a 3 car set for £37 on 'Buy it now', so I did! It's described as "motor tries to run" so it'll either need work or replacing, either way no problem as I'm a retired Electrician (and I have some motor spares!). Only slight snag is that it's in BR blue/grey whereas I want BR green, but that's not a problem. Incidentally Paul, are you aware that "Silver Fox Models" do a conversion to correct the 'wrong' car on a 3 car set?
    Keith.
     
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  7. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    There's a rail blue boxed two car set priced under £40 on a BIN on ebay... its a new listing... if that's any good to you chaps.

    cheers Yorkie
     
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  8. SRman

    SRman Full Member

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  9. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

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    Hi to Matt, Keith , Yorkie and SRman, and any others watching this thread:-
    Thanks for your input.
    Parts such as the couple of trailers I could use will turn up eventually, so I'm not in the market for complete sets.
    The SE Finecast glazing is always useful, so please PM me when you find it Matt?
    However, I am glad Keith found something of use, and I hope SRman's info on 117s on the SR is of use to him, although I think his SR focus is on Kent?

    I had forgotten that the 117s from Reading to Basingstoke also worked on towards Portsmouth and Southampton.

    So please keep the info on kit bits and use of Class 117s coming in. All gratefully received.

    Best regards
    Paul
     
  10. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    I was at the Spalding show today with Pete (Jakesdad) and He informs me that Alan Gibson do the 'special' shorter-than-standard axles and wheelsets for Lima models. They are usually at the Peterborough show next month, so I may have a shopping list!:giggle:
    Keith.
     
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  11. SRman

    SRman Full Member

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    Hi Paul, don't worry about my needs; my layout "moves" according to what area's trains I want to run. :D

    While my initial focus was on the Kent lines, I also have trains from Central and Western Sections, such as the Brighton Belle and a 4TC, so the layout location just moves to suit. Did I mention I also move time periods too? The main focus is 1960s but I have things from pre-grouping through to present day.

    p.s. I do have a couple of 117s, which have had the MBS conversions done using bits from other 117 bodies, and a 121 made up from leftovers. The current rolling program is to replace the Lima mechanisms with the smoother Hornby 5-pole units.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
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  12. Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

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    Well SR man, and I thought I was pushing things by modelling the same location in three different eras from early 60s to c2016!

    While I get round the problem of different station furniture for different eras by not modelling a station, my worst problem is signals.

    I can get away with colour lights by pretending that the semaphore to colour light change which for the location I model was in 1963 happened in 1962. However that change only impacted the main line, the branch stayed semaphore until 1970s. So I need semaphores and colour lights for a number of signal locations at different eras. I think one way is to have plug in bases on the signals and different sockets for the semaphores and the colours in shared locations.
    How do you deal with signals?
     
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  13. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't know about how SR Man deals with signalling, but my own way of working is to use the Seep PM1 point motors which have a set of single pole changeover connections. I use these to change the colour light signals according to which way the points are set, it may not be the right way, but it saves me having to remember to change signals separately to the points, then back again after the train has passed. My layout 'location' is entirely fictitious, so I feel I can get away with running more or less whatever I like, including stuff that I'm fairly sure never saw Southern metals!:giggle:

    Keith.
     
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  14. SRman

    SRman Full Member

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    I accept a bit of compromise as it is almost impossible to cater for all of the time periods. The Southern had a real mixed bag of signalling styles, though, so I am happy to use 2-aspect colour lights on the lower (LT Underground) level, and upper quadrant semaphores on the upper level.

    If you look at various cab ride videos along the Brighton Line over the years, you can see a mix of both lower quadrant and upper quadrant semaphores, and colour light signals (usually 3-aspect in earlier times), sometimes with all three styles within a short distance.
     

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