Connoisseurs NER/North Sunderland Railway Saloon Second or Third?

Discussion in 'Kits, Kit bashes & Scratch builds' started by Mossy, May 30, 2021.

  1. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Needing a break from wagon building my next build will be one of Jim McGeown’s 4-wheel coaches. I built the diagram X brake third and the diagram 58 all third at least 15 and probably 20 years ago and fitted them out with his card interiors from his 6-wheel range.

    I don’t plan to do a blow-by-blow account of the build as Toto, JimsDad and ano covered that a while ago so I will restrict myself to just a few observations as I go along.

    The assembled components for the build consists of Jim kit, a set of his sprung suspension units and Slaters wheels. Jim’s kit comes with a card interior specially designed for the 4-wheel saloon (dated 2020), which isn’t mentioned on his web site but equally saves me trying to figure out how to fit it out. The etched door handles will be replaced by some very nice ones I have from I know not where, and the white metal Westinghouse pipes replaced with lost wax examples. Also, the kit has brake yokes but none of the other underskirt Westinghouse gear, so I will need to source a Westinghouse pump and air tank after all I wouldn’t want anyone “up skirting” the final build to find an improperly dress lady!

    A couple of interesting points have emerged during research on the coach:

    Jim’s website describes it as a Second Saloon. The supplied instructions title describes it as Third Saloon, yet the 2 diagrams in the instruction clearly show 2nd on each door. Which is it? There is an article “Memories of the North Sunderland Railway” by George Hearse in NE Express No 186 in which he describes travelling in the NER 2nd class Saloon on the NSR – so 2nd it is.

    Lighting. Jim describes the coach as oil light in the NSR days, but, in NE Express no’s 233 and 234, David Addyman describes a build of the 4mm version of the brake third (which is no longer available) and comments the brake third was “built with gas lighting so had the tall funnel-shaped protrusions on the roof each paired with flatter lamp hole covers”, which is exactly what is supplied with this kit. So, I am going with gas lighting and will need to source gas cylinders from somewhere as well as building gas piping on the roof and plain end, along with fabricating a gas shutoff handle for the plain end. I will also have to retro fit gas works to the other two 4 wheelers I have, what started out as a simple relaxing build seems to have trans-morphed into something far more complex.

    Oh, I should say I don't anticipate any basic build problems after all it is one of Jim's range.

    Mossy
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2021
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  2. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Happily making models Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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  3. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Rob,

    I was planning a simple representation of the brake gear not a full blow exposes, you know pump and reservoir not a spaghetti junction of pipe work.
    My lady will have discrete but minimal underwear, not the full blown Victoriana.

    :facepalm:

    Mossy
     
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  4. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Sadly because of a horrible cold any plans for a 2 day walk, the Derwent watershed with an overnight camp in a shooting cabin had to be abandoned,
    that gave me the opportunity to watch the final stage of the Giro Italia, but also about 4 hours modelling time.
    I had forgotten how easily a Connoisseurs kit fits together, you almost show the parts to each other and its done.

    The basic body shell is done, it awaits the brake gear, Westinghouse hose and door/grab handles, plus the extra gas piping and shutoff switch. About 3 1/3 hours modelling got me to here, it needs a good clean up but other than that no assembly problems.

    As a completely off topic and these day politically incorrect comment, I read somewhere that Victorian Upper Class ladies didn't wear underwear, since they had servants they definitely did not bend over so there was no risk of exposing anything. Perhaps my Victorian Lady should instead be a scullery maid.

    Mossy

    6C3A6634.JPG
     
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  5. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Happily making models Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    They also wore long hooped skirts with many petticoats underneath so definitely no danger of exposing themselves.

    I hope that you get well soon.
     
  6. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Rob,

    Thanks I'm on the mend but being a smoking asthmatic I know any serious excersie will start triggering problems so the walk was definitely off.
    The full round is about 40 miles, traditionally done in one push, but there's a beautifully situated shooters cabin about half way round and about 1 1/2 mile off route a great place to stay the night. I'm sure we will reschedule it for some time next month unless we decide to head to Scotland Munro bashing.

    Mossy
     
  7. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Don't bash the Munro's too hard or it will become a Corbett, and we already have one of those in the forum and one is enough :avatar:

    The above conversation got me looking at a couple of books I obtained a good few years ago - Railway Mechanical Engineering Vols 1 & 2, written and published in 1923, and within the pages are some rather interesting drawings of underframes and associated bits, now wagon building just got a few steps harder - ignorance was always a valid excuse, but now I have the answer - knew I should have left them on the shelf :facepalm:

    Paul
     
  8. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Oh forgot to say, what size are the cylinders - a rough dimentioned sketch may work wonders ;)

    Paul
     
  9. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Hi Paul,

    As a Scotsman you may know if you go by the current guide there are 284 Munros, but 2 have been downgraded to Corbetts, so there are now 282.
    By the book I have done 142, but current count 141 - exactly half way.
    None got done last year and it's unlikely many will get done this - it's getting close to midge season. My target was to do them all by the age of 70, four years to go and far to many to get done in that time.

    I have had many a good day trying to tramp them down to Corbetts, and hopefully many more to come.

    I agree knowledge makes your realise what you haven't modelled, but hey ho each to their own standards after all most of us are only trying to represent the wagons etc, not build exact replicas.

    Keep well

    Mossy
     
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  10. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Gas cylinder size is unknown as I cant find any drawings of the dia 61 Saloon, I am going to use the D&S gas cylinders supplied with their 6 wheelers as a initial reference.
    They consist of 2 white metal end caps fitted to 7/16th inch brass tubing. Length 32mm dia 10mm ish diaameter.

    However Dave Hill of Glaidiator Models is checking out what comes with his NER SALOON NUMBER 1173 for me, when he is back from his lastest Taiwan trip, so I will just have to wait a while.

    Mossy
     
  11. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Flat or domed ends ?
     
  12. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    How's this

    upload_2021-5-31_14-32-4.png
     
  13. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Ooops

    this should be better - did them with a 10mm radius

    upload_2021-5-31_14-56-5.png

    The bottom one now has a bigger radius.
    Straps and a base can easily be added

    Paul
     
  14. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    mmmmm I like the flat ended ones, and onlt 1h30m to print, I'm gonna give them a try

    upload_2021-5-31_15-23-27.png

    Next, I'll add some fixing battens

    Paul
     
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  15. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Hi Paul,

    A drawing saves a thousand words.

    Inner section 10 mm dia, outer section 12mm.
    Inner section 22mm long, outer sections 5mm long.

    Ends like a petri dish, 12mm section extends 1mm beyond inner section.
    No other strapping etc, fixture is 2 simple cyliderical sections extending vertically from the outer white metal section

    Mossy

    NER Gar Cylinder.jpg gas cylinder.JPG
     
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  16. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    OK

    I've been playing - how does the stop cock look on this version

    upload_2021-5-31_16-16-57.png
     
  17. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    How's this

    upload_2021-5-31_16-29-46.png

    0.8 mm holes on 19mm centers which can be drilled out to suit (normally prints holes under size), you could tap them and retain them with screws.

    Left the sharp edges on the outside. 2mm difference in diameter looks big, that would be over 2" difference.

    Paul
     
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  18. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    The first test prints of the flat ended cyl has completed



    Now started the printer off on the first test prints of the cylinder with base - looks about right for my 6wh brake, and the tests for the above design.

    upload_2021-5-31_17-50-13.png

    We'll see the results later

    Paul
     
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  19. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    All of that looks amazing Paul. A nice display of the adaptability of having your own 3d print rig.

    Mossy
     
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  20. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    And as if by magic



    I drilled the holes out to 1.3mm to take some nails.

    As for the flat ended cyls



    The beauty of these type of prints is the smallest 3D printers can easily produce the parts, and have come down drastically since I bought my first Photon.

    Paul
     
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