Ivatt 2-6-2 Mickey Mouse tank engine in 7mm scale

Discussion in 'Workshop Benches' started by York Paul, Nov 13, 2019.

  1. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    2,471
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Starting a slow burner thread here which won't be getting underway just yet due to other more important stuff on the bench, however here is what I grabbed out of the bargain bin a couple days ago. The box is massive for what it does... I think I'll put a carrier handle and a pair of mini wheels on it and use it as a suitcase... not that I'm going on holiday anytime soon.

    [​IMG]
     
    Keith M, jakesdad13 and Andy_Sollis like this.
  2. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    13,270
    Likes Received:
    1,847
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Nice catch ...... just the kind of thing I would have went for. I love these tanks. Cant wait to see this built. :thumbs:
     
    York Paul likes this.
  3. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    2,471
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    So here are the vital components ... three crisply formed nickel silver etches making up the body and chassis frames... the downside is I have to roll the boiler and smokebox, the cab roof, the smokebox saddle and oh that's about it. Seriously the etches are a good thickness I'd say 18 thou and if they were brass I'd be looking to add strength but nickel silver is ok.

    Now for the faults having had a cursory glance over them, the bunker has no rivet etching marks so these will need to be added, the cylinder wrapper has the edge banding which is way too wide in my opinion, the main frames appear too close below the smokebox saddle so again it looks like a modification will be the order of the day. Finally there is no compensation beam so I'll have to make that set up if this engine is going to balance properly. Another little thing missing is there are no internal strengthening formers for the boiler and smokebox so I'll take the initial circumference from the smokebox door casting which is correct. This one is certainly not for the faint hearted.



    [​IMG]
     
    Rob Pulham, steve, Keith M and 2 others like this.
  4. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    2,471
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Plenty of castings are included, some white metal and some lost wax... and I mean plenty of castings.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    2,471
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Got diesel bogies to build up first Toto :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  6. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    2,471
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Now when I said there are plenty of castings included I wasn't joking... just count how many pairs of crossheads and pistons and slide bars are included... enough to make a 12 cylinder version tank engine.

    [​IMG]
     
    Rob Pulham and jakesdad13 like this.
  7. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    2,471
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Actually I miscounted wahay and yippie I can make a 14 cylinder version Ivatt tank engine :lol::avatar::scratchchin: how cool is that... I just need to figure out where and how to locate the other six cylinder blocks on the frames... and there is a bonus prize to as this kit comes with an LNWR Coal Tank backhead casting. :avatar:

    [​IMG]


    There are some things here that will get replaced with better Laurie Griffin items namely the steam dome, lubricators, regulator handle, ejectors and injectors, there are bits missing such as a proper Class 2 Ivatt backhead and there is no handbrake pedestal or reversing gear and cab lockers will have to be scratched along with window frame and wind shield, also the steam heat pipes are missing. BUT on the upside I do have a spare six sets of piston and crosshead gear. :avatar:

    The instructions are pretty gross in as much as it leaves a lot to the imagination, this is certainly not a kit for the feint hearted but for less that £200 what else could I expect for that money, all in all having read a blog from a chap in Brazil who built the same kit it is very doable and will make into an accurate representation with a bit of outside the box thinking. I've got Slaters wheels on order and am still thinking about the motor /gear arrangement and spec... after all with the potential of 14 cylinders this little 2-6-2 tank engine should have no difficulty putting 50 odd Mark 1 coaches around a circuit at a scale 95mph if I can find that many and a test track big enough. :avatar:
     
  8. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Full Member

    Messages:
    1,284
    Likes Received:
    1,250
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    Reminds me of when I helped a guy restore his VW Beetle a few years ago. He thought he would do it on the cheap and ordered Brazilian replacement wings..
    When they came, they didn’t line up with the running board under the doors between the front and back arches and the bolt hole to secure it was a good 2 inches out.
    So if a guy in Brazil can build the kit, it’s got to be doable... although I find the list of what extra bits you have to do a little disappointing.
     
    York Paul likes this.
  9. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    2,471
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    I see where you are coming from Mr S but by comparison a similar DJH kit would set you back £550 plus and you'd still have to buy wheels, much of what you get in budget kits from the second hand market is hit and miss and I go into such buys fully understanding the score. To be honest I'm not grumbling because its the etches I'm really after and these are good quality. I do have two full sets of lost ax piston slidebar and valve gear included which I can use elsewhere, the other thing with old kits like this one is that they come from an era when scratch building was the norm and such things were merely an aid to self building. Anyway for now I'm just thinking an approach to this build, I'm also thinking about cutting the mainframes off behind the cylinder block so as to get the correct width at the front end by the smokebox and also to build the cylinder and motion bracket up as a single item. Scary stuff indeed.
     
  10. ianvolvo46

    ianvolvo46 Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,319
    Likes Received:
    713
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    full of admiration Paul I got lost when you opened the box but it'll be a great thread

    Ian vt
     
    York Paul likes this.
  11. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    2,971
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2015
    "Been there, Done that" with kits like this Paul, no or poor instructions/missing or wrong parts etc, but as you say, when you buy old kits or one that someone's started but not completed, you have to ask yourself why it's not been completed, and the answers usually either the kits not been well thought out by the producer, poorly packed or the buyer has bought something outside of his capabilities. Saying that though, you only learn capabilities (and experience) by plugging on through and completing the thing. It's never a cheap way to get a model though by the time you've bought wheels/motor/gearbox and replaced poorly produced parts with decent stuff, but nothing beats that "I built that" feeling at the end of it, having made a 'Silk purse out of a sow's ear'!:avatar:
    I'll be following this with interest.
    Keith.
     
    Rob Pulham, York Paul and Andy_Sollis like this.
  12. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    2,471
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Thanks Keith, I agree with your observations entirely because in factoring in the cost on new/better quality lost wax castings, wheels and other missing stuff the actual cost effectively doubles, had this been the tender version I'd have walked away because £500 gets you a spon new one from DJH. However this one is discontinued and has been for a while now, both Toto and myself have had communication with the now retired kit maker who hails from Sileby and we both came to the same conclusions as to why he went out of business, so the chance of getting hold of the 2-6-2 Mickey Mouse tank version from a good source proved too much... oh dear I think I am starting to show symptoms of having contracted Large Tank Engine Syndrome :avatar:.
     
    jakesdad13 likes this.
  13. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    2,471
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Thanks Ian, ah well all I can say is it baffled me too... the sight of so many lost wax piston and crossheads with their slide bars all on the same sprue... not to mention all the nice slide valve gearing. Now does anybody want an O Gauge backhead for an LNWR Coal tank or has anyone here recently bought a Coal Tank kit which is missing its backhead ? If so can I swap you for the Ivatt Class 2 one which you probably won't need.:avatar::avatar:
     
  14. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

    Messages:
    1,575
    Likes Received:
    989
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    Hi Paul,

    It looks like an interesting build, I can't wait to get my workbench back up and running I have sever withdrawal symptoms...

    Is the guy in Brazil Peter Cross by any chance?
     
    York Paul likes this.
  15. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    2,471
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Yes he is Rob and a very nice email from him I received today offering to dig out his notes and guide me through the pitfalls, apparently it is a Bank Holiday in Brazil this week so he will send me information next week once he returns from his break. I have also had a full set of GA drawings sent me and a magazine article containing 7mm scale elevation drawings for the Ivatt tank from Steve Bannister and Ray Hulock, which is an incredibly kind thing to do. I sent Steve some pictures of my Loco build work in progress and he was quite impressed with what I had achieved, so it may well prove to be a fruitful move for me in taking on such a challenge.

    Now I have the scale drawings and the General Arrangement plans I know which bits I need to order in and also simple things like where the parking brake column goes on the footplate, I can also now work out the exact angle and position the cylinders are fitted at on the mainframe so that tells me where to cut the chassis frame at. I may do a cardboard mock up firstly so I can think through the process properly without error.

    The engine I'm going to recreate is 41244 which was a Llandudno Junction allocation later going to Bank Hall and then Aintree in 1965, the smokebox number plate for this loco is available from Seven Mill Nameplates. Knowing which engine to make is important as this tells me which chimney to fit and whether the guard irons were changed for the later more elegant truck fitting ones... all in the search for authenticity. I have also now compiled a full list of the lost wax castings needed... its all rather frightening really but I'm certain this will turn out a good 'un in the end and well worth the initial investment, after all I can say I built that. One final potential issue I've discovered is the etch items making the con rods by Peter's build blog suggest these rods are 4mm too long, it may be I'll invest in a decent set from LGM and dispense with the etched side rods too replacing them as well, Laurie's product I feel will make all the difference visually. We shall see.
     
    jakesdad13 and Rob Pulham like this.
  16. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    13,270
    Likes Received:
    1,847
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Good luck with the build. :thumbs:
     
    York Paul likes this.
  17. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    2,471
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Thanks Toto I appreciate that, however this project is going to remain in the research and parts acquisition phase for a while yet, I'm not going to commence build until I've finished at least one other loco. But thanks for the support anyway :thumbs:
     
    Andy_Sollis likes this.
  18. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    2,471
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Well I've now completed the list of extras needed to build this engine and quite a list it is too, I'll speak with Laurie as to what items he has available that I need and if he can to give me a small discount, I've just ordered a set of side rods because the etched ones are not jointed in the middle and to be honest I can't be bothered to modify them... its just not worth the cost of time. On the plus side the wheels have come from Slaters Plasticard and I've rolled the boiler and smokebox, also the correct cylinder position has been calculated which gives an inclination of 1 in 20 so I may well feel bold and slice the front of the frames off behind the cylinder block. Before I do that though I need to finish making a pair of compensation beams so that the weight distribution triangle is beneath the tanks... this will allow me to add in extra weight inside the tank space for adhesion. So far I've cut the compensation beams from 18 thou brass and drilled the first hole to accept a brass axle bush, I'll wait for the siderods to arrive so that axle centres can be checked before drilling the second hole. No pictures as yet because there is nothing to show except a lot of scribe lines over blue inked patches. As I said earlier I'd not gone into this with eyes shut, so this loco had better turn out good... which I'm sure it will.
     
  19. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    2,471
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    More bits and pieces have started to come for this loco build, a nice set of scale correct size metal side rods arrived this morning from Laurie Griffin... the original etched ones were way too thick and 1mm oversize as well as not being jointed, so it was in the bin with those after the obligatory picture. So good are these new side rods I've ordered a complete outside motion set from Laurie to compliment them, the con rods in etch frets are nearly 4mm too long and the other etch rods such as radius, combination and return cranks are of equally dubious heritage, so in the bin they will also go. To be fair this kit was ok for 1994 when things were hand drawn and scratch making was all part of the game but for today my challenge will be to upgrade this representational kit into a finely detailed and accurate model.

    Here is a picture of th rods against an accurate profile drawing of an Ivatt tank loco.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    2,471
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    So now having got the new side rods which are 100 per cent accurate and checked the etch frames against a copy of an LMS general arrangement drawing and this modern profile drawing I feel satisfied the main frames are the correct length and that I can safely reduce the spacing between middle and rear driving wheels by 1mm. This allowed me to then complete the scratch build of the compensation beams with the same axle spacings. I was also sufficiently satisfied to slice off the front of the mainframe behind the cylinder block because the angle is 1 in 20 from the vertical, I shall make a completely new cylinder block. The reason for slicing the front frames is because I want the block to be detachable for painting and also the front of the frames below the smokebox are spaced to close together and look quite wrong, so this allows also for positioning the the front frames in their correct place. as can be seen the original kit instructions are quite vague and the drawing even more vague... probably a case of "should have gone to Specsavers" :avatar:

    So now I'll just open the middle and rear axle holes a millimeter and make a start of building the frame up.


    [​IMG]
     
    Andy_Sollis and Rob Pulham like this.

Share This Page