Kyle of Lochalsh

Discussion in 'Members Personal Layouts' started by redpiperbob, Sep 8, 2016.

  1. redpiperbob

    redpiperbob Full Member

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    Ok I got a bit ore done.
    More paint on the cliffs


    Main station building

    all the sections in place
    and interior decorated and populated

    Bridge painted


    Be seeing you
    Bob
     
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  2. ian jeffery

    ian jeffery Full Member

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    that looks so amazing!!!!!!! you have done such a good job on that!
     
  3. redpiperbob

    redpiperbob Full Member

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    Hi Ian
    thanks for that. The prints are all done on a Prusa I3 MK2 and not the Photon this takes time but now I have the machine dialed in and working fine the prints are very good.
    The cliffs are just a matter of putting on more layers of thin dry paint.
    I am just about to post some pics of the roof parts.
    How is setting up your laser going.?
    be seeing you
    Bob
     
  4. redpiperbob

    redpiperbob Full Member

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    here are some pics of the roof parts
    Be seeing you
    Bob
     
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  5. redpiperbob

    redpiperbob Full Member

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    Hi All
    I am after some help please. below is a sketch of the approach to my Kyle of Lochalsh with the gantry across the tracks can some one help me with the position of signal arms on the gantry I cannot find a photo of the signals.
    Be seeing you
    Bob
     
  6. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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  7. redpiperbob

    redpiperbob Full Member

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    Hi Gary
    Thanks for that pic I have that but it does not show the gantry.
    Be seeing you
    Bob
     
  8. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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  9. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi Bob, may I ask did Kyle have a gantry originally because its not a part of the railway I'm familiar with?

    If you could say which are the passenger platform lines and which are yard sidings I could help you with a few ideas, basically on the "big railway" entry and exit of passenger lines would be governed with the red / white arm Home signals which control mainline train movement, the siding access to mainline would be controlled by either a tall siding signal or by ground discs dependent on what shunting movements were required. Now all this can be translated into a form which works as a purists layout or can be adapted in a form which works for models and the modelers vision. I assume the gantry is your own preferred layout feature?
     
  10. Mr Porter

    Mr Porter Failure is always an option. Full Member

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  11. redpiperbob

    redpiperbob Full Member

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    Hi Jim I have a book the Dingwall and Skye railway and on page 117 there is a photograph of the approach to Kyle and it clearly shows the signal gantry with at least 7 signal arms on it. and on page 116 there is a diagram showing the gantry. I don't want to put the picture on the web site due to copyright.
    The signal arms all appear to be for the trains leaving Kyle and not going into the station. but I am not sure.
    Be seeing you
    Bob
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2018
  12. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi Jim,

    Looking at the 1949 track diagram supplied by our Gary the Kyle layout geometry used stop signals mounted on posts or brackets, now I see nothing wrong with Bob wanting to employ a gantry arrangement for interest on his layout as he says it is his take on the Kyle set up... a thread which I must apologize for completely missing beforehand. I believe from a modeling perspective and interest point a gantry located as Bob shows would work well there, it may mean adding a few extra signal posts or bracket on the approach side into the junction points and platforms and a few ground discs in the yard too but that will just add to the interest perspective for us viewers. :thumbup::tophat:
     
  13. redpiperbob

    redpiperbob Full Member

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    Hi Paul
    I also have a signal diagram of the line showing the gantry it shows 7 signals too. but I don't understand how to read it. I will try to draw a portion of it and post it to see if someone can tell me what the signals are and if they are all for departures from the station.
    as for your earlier post the two red line are the platform lines.
    If I could show the photograph I am sure some could advise me on the signals.
    be seeing you
    Bob
     
  14. redpiperbob

    redpiperbob Full Member

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    Here is a full position diagram
    the gantry would make an interesting model as one end is actually cut into the cliff face.
    that's why I would like to model it.
    be seeing you
    Bob
     
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  15. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    That's interesting Bob, gantries were sometimes built into walls and cuttings, Edge Hill Liverpool springs to mind. Now looking at the second diagram posted everything runs onto a single line so the two passenger lines would both have respective starting signals reading onto the single line, if there are any smaller arms beneath these signals they would be for low speed running moves cancelling the requirement to use the main arms and effectively authorizing the main signal arm to be passed at danger. I would imagine the other signals would be for moves from the sidings onto the single line for the purposes of shunting and maybe an outlet signal such as a tall siding signal for moves which in railway parlance is referred to as "blocking back outside Home signal"... none of this is meant to bamboozle the modeller and a picture or drawing would be helpful in describing which signal did what. Please don't take this as confirmed since I'd need to see the gantry picture or at least a reasonable drawing representation in order to decode for you.
     
  16. redpiperbob

    redpiperbob Full Member

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    Hi Paul thanks for that explanation I know nothing of signaling and I would like to get it right. i will do a drawing of the gantry photo. There are two signals on two of the uprights the lower ones seem to have circles on them.
    I will do a drawing of it.
    Be seeing you
    Bob
     
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  17. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi Bob,

    I suspect the signals with circles on them are of quite an ancestry, the practice of "ringed" signal arms dates back to early days but basically these signals are "calling on" arms which permit a low speed shunt movement up to a red light (train tail lamp or buffer stop) and only as far ahead as the line is clear. So looking at John Hinsons drawing of the Kyle layout in 1949 we can see that as main signal numbered 30 with a subsiduary offset arm numbered 31 below it at the end of the Down platform, these signals read from the Down platform onto the Up Stromferry single line section. Now looking at the track layout there is a clue here as to why number 31 subsiduary signal was provided and the clue is there is no run round facility on the Down platform so the loco of a passenger train entering the Down platform had to be released by another means and this is why 31 signal was provided. The way this was done was a station pilot engine would draw the empty stock out of the Down platform and onto the signal line... this ECS train (empty coaching stock) would be fitted with a red tail lamp as per regulations, the original train loco would the be free to move, 31 signal would allow the loco to move at slow speed up to the red tail lamp of the ECS and then the loco could shunt back onto a siding and wait for the pilot engine to push the ECS back into the Down platform where the train engine could be reattached.

    Now in the olden days the subsidiary "calling on" arm would have been denoted with a large white circle or ring on the arm, this tells the driver this is not a shunting signal but is provided for a very specific purpose... as described in the previous paragraph. In modern times this signal was replaced with a small arm displaying horizontal red and white stripes and an illuminated letter C at night. All this tells me the gantry arrangement was an early method of signalling the Kyle layout and that the LMS somewhere after 1936 (date of introduction of standard upper quadrant signalling practice as decreed by A.F Bound the LMS Chief Signal Engineer Euston) replaced the old Highland Railway gantry with more up to date group standard signalling. probably the reason why there are very few photos of the gantry.
     
  18. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    This might help
     
  19. redpiperbob

    redpiperbob Full Member

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    Hi All I dont think I need this post anymore as the explanation and the article have done alot to explain signaling to me. But here are the prints first the gantry diagram
    The station is to the right in the daigram
    Then the photo
    Thanks for all your help
    Be seeing you
    Bob
     
  20. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    Is there a date with that photo of the gantry Bob ? All the searching I had done never resulted in such a picture. That picture is worth a thousand words !

    Cheers, Gary.
     

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