An NSR Absolute Block instrument

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous & Oddities' started by Andy_Sollis, Aug 5, 2023.

  1. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Time for something a little different from me.

    I have invested in a little restoration project of a Tyers Absolute Block Instrument as used by the North Staffordshire Railway, this being very similar if not the same as one of the pair found in Leek signal box as to be found one day on Yorkies developing diorama/layout.

    I say restoration as it’s not quite complete.

    IMG_3979.jpeg

    At first I thought I had a broken top half, and missing some mid sections and the front panel with the glass in it.

    IMG_3985.jpeg

    But after having it about a day, I happened to put the lid down and it dawned on me by the fixture in the side that it had once had a lock in it…. Just like the bottom half of the rest of it.. turned out my “top” was actually a second bottom.. however the top panel is the same as the bottom so it may be a stalled renovation project by someone else to reuse the base as a new top.??? Well that’s my plan, and here will be some details of how it’s being done as we progress.

    But before that, here is a little more of the instrument..
    IMG_3980.jpeg
    opening the door we have the switch gear for sending the communications to the next box. It needs a great clean up, but nothing time and patience can’t do - and it’s all there!
    IMG_3981.jpeg

    Here is the other half, these are the contacts which will work through a number of red relays behind the display panel. Also present inside were two service stickers. These date the last service in 1963 and also the resistance of each of the relay coils.

    it’s even stamped inside with NSR but the number 1925. We don’t know if this is the item
    Number or a build year… the latter would be odd as the NSR was absorbed in to the LMS in 1923! IMG_3990.jpeg

    before we start the restoration, here is what it should look like, complete with its block bell box.

    53269d2e-d0d1-446d-8df2-043b8edd5d30.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2023
  2. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Progress has been started on the refurbishment. First up was to try and identify the wood.
    We have narrowed it down to being Mahogany and believe it to possibly be Brazilian, as 100 years ago, it was quite common. Sadly it’s not a wood you can buy today, so it’s reclamation yard searching time.
    To help match, we removed the two old side panels. These are surplus as they are 6 inches too short and also damaged.

    The first was sanded back in the corner. Thankfully, it just tapped out (looks like it had been screwed in place at one point.)
    However, the first notable point came here.

    IMG_4023.jpeg The left hand side has had a very gentle sand back. It would appear that the dark colour is a varnish and it now peeling off in places.
    IMG_4020.jpeg
    on removal we noticed that it is half dove jointed in to the lid. Ok. So we can do that.

    IMG_4021.jpeg
    but when compared end to end, one it thicker. The dove tail join tapers as does the lid! Making it almost like a wedge. Could be interesting when it comes to creating the new side panels.
    image0000001.jpeg
    my father in law has also helped and he has cleaned back the top to its natural finish. You can clearly see the NSR and the 1925 stamping.
    IMG_20230802_142828303_HDR.jpeg
    and side by side with its old panel mate! Showing the difference.
    Having cleaned these back, it should help to match up with some second hand timber to fit in and make the new parts.

    off on jollies now so more in a week or three when we have acquired some wood.
    Andy
     
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  3. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Looks like your 3d printer might be a busted flush for this project.
     
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  4. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    G`day Andy,
    It looks like that block instrument was originally finished with Shellac
    If you need to remove any of the finish from grooves or hard to get at places, Methylated Spirits will remove it with the aid of a stiff toothbrush.
    :tophat:Gormo
     
  5. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    I suspect that the 1925 number relates to manufacture by Tyers and not a year date... it would not be inconceivable to think that at the time of manufacture that Tyers had supplied one thousand and twenty five instruments of the one wire three position configuration to which the NSR were so fond of. In fact the North Stafford favoured the one wire three position instruments that worked on a voltage fluctuation as opposed to other absolute block instruments which worked using three wires for the respective flags. Can Nick Alsop help here with regard to Tyers records ? Having said that there is no evidence as to where the NSR installed instrument 1925 if indeed it was only ever in one place... don't forget the NSR also closed signal boxes in their time... Consal, Honeywall Junction on the Silverdale line are but two., also Shelton Colliery Sidings on the Loop which was a block post between Hanley Junction and Etruria Junction is another.
     
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  6. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    That is exactly what I thought too Gormo... in fact it was only last week on another forum where I discussed with Andy how cabinet makers finished brown furniture.
     
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  7. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Yes I`ve seen it all before Paul,
    I did a course in French Polishing years ago.
    Varnish does not crack and fall off in the same way as Shellac, however Shellac is easier to remove sympathetically.
    Methylated Spirits and 0000 grade steel wool removes the finish but does not harm the wood underneath, or the history for that matter.
    :tophat:Gormo
     
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  8. Echidna

    Echidna Full Member

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    Hello All, re #5 YorkPaul above, Instruments due to be overhauled were swapped out by the local Signal Fitter, who also swapped over the nameplate ! Regards to all.
     
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  9. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Nah. No 3D work on this! :avatar:
     
  10. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    I’ve messaged Nick. Surprising, despite having a complete one from his first signal box (it’s in the earlier photos as a complete example) he has never had the top off his? he can’t really add much other than measurements.
    Andy
     
  11. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Quite possible. We will never know. All you can ever work out if the name plate is still in situe is their last place of working.
     
  12. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Gormo,
    Heavy handed father in law who knows more about wood than me has cleaned it back with a paint stripper and sand paper. (Or should than be experience… rather than knows…:scratchchin:)

    the main body may be more simpathentically done under my supervision following your comments. all the internals to strip and clean as yet.
    Andy
     
  13. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Paint stripper is OK Andy, but Sand Paper is a no, no if you want a nice finish.
    Sand paper has minute little shards of glass embedded in it, that when dragged across a timber surface, gouge or score the surface tearing away at the timber.
    Whereas steel wool, even the coarse grades ,act like a blade and they plane away the surface leaving it very smooth
    Steel wool is less aggressive.
    Steel wool, comes in various grades from 0000 ( finest ), 000 (extra fine ), 00 (fine), 0 (medium fine), 1 (medium), 2 (medium coarse), 3 (coarse ), 4 (extra coarse)
    It should be available at your local hardware shop
    So I would use 0 or 1 for the initial stripping back and 0000 for your final finishing.
    For stripping Shellac, have a bowl with some Methylated Spirits in it. Dunk a piece of 0 grade steel wool into the Metho and saturate it. Take the saturated steel wool to the piece and start rubbing away at the finish to be removed.......keep dunking the steel wool to keep plenty of Metho on the surface.
    When stripped, allow the timber to dry out thoroughly over a day or two and then you can use the 0000 grade to rub the timber back to a fine, smooth surface.
    For corners that are hard to reach.....use a toothbrush soaked in Metho and or a pointy tool.
    I make a pointy tool from a hack saw blade, snapped off square and then brought to a point on the bench grinder.
    I can give you some tips on applying the finish, but we`ll come back to that later on.
    Hope this helps
    :tophat:Gormo
     
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  14. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Having seen your block instruments (which I was quite in awe of Brian) yes, I’m open to any advice when it’s something new.
    Hopefully we haven’t spoilt the top part.
    Andy
     
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  15. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    G`day Andy,
    The top should be OK.
    Where it has been sanded, you can go over that with Steel Wool to smooth it down.
    If you rub it with the steel wool ,try and rub along the grain, not across it and not against it.
    If you rub against the grain it`s possible to hook under a random piece that may be sitting slightly proud of the surface, whereas rubbing along the grain would shave that proud piece down flush with the surface.
    You`ll be converted to sanding with steel wool once you try it, because it gives a superior result to even the finest papers.
    The thing is to give yourself plenty of time.....pace yourself and work on one surface at a time........your patience will pay dividends.
    You can do the touchy, feely test by just running you fingers across the sanded surface. Your fingers will alert you to any slight pimples or rough patches on the surface.
    Don`t worry about dings or dents that the case has received over it`s life. These are part of it`s history, and when you put a finish over them they will still be obvious but at the same time they will enhance the character of the instrument.
    I would suggest you try and aim for the " old but cared for look " as opposed to the " new and glossy look "..........that`s something one of my teachers suggested when I was restoring an old bridge chair under his supervision , and once he showed me how to achieve it.......it was like a revelation.......almost religious mate...:avatar:
    An instrument as old as the one you have, would most likely never have been glossy, but rather more of a low sheen..........anyhow you will be able to easily achieve a beautiful finish.
    I will add more info in the next day or so
     
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  16. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    G`day Andy,
    Do you think you will finish the instrument in Varnish or Shellac.......either will be fine however, the varnish is more durable and less of a process to get the job done.
    :tophat:Gormo
     
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  17. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Sorry Gormo, missed your post whilst on holiday.

    Not yet decided. Probably use the old pats as test pieces before we decide,

    found these in a new shop just opened up in town

    IMG_4341.jpeg IMG_4340.jpeg

    Having gone by your earlier comments, I’m tempted to try Shellac, but never used any before.
    I’m also still trying to source some wood.
    Found some yesterday, but sadly, it’s in use as a windowsill and a facia board!
    IMG_4425.jpeg IMG_4427.jpeg IMG_4430.jpeg

    Apparently it was a ticket office from
    Manchester (Central??) and then went to the K&WVR but never really used. It’s now being extended to accommodate a proper doorway (rather than a cat flap under the desk) and a wash area/sink)

    more when I have some wood - although there is a connection here as the guy who is restoring the above ticket booth is also looking to supply me with what we need!
    Andy
     
  18. gormo

    gormo Staff Member Administrator

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    Well Andy,
    If you want to do Shellac, I can take you through it.
    You have already solved one issue with Shellac by finding the pre- mixed bottles.
    I normally mix my own by dissolving Shellac flakes in Methylated Spirits.......it`s easy enough but you have to get the viscosity correct.
    Anyhow that`s another story.
    :tophat:Gormo
     
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  19. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    I’m still awaiting the wood delivery, but that has infact not been a bad thing as I have been able to make a start on drawing up some plans/drawings for the missing parts.

    Now the top half is obviously the same thickness as the bottom panels, but different length, although they have a tongue and grove fitment so that means some variation to the original.

    tyres 3.png
    first up I’ve drawn the new sides up and the four front panels tyres 1.png
    I’ve added them to the bottom half and top
    tyres 2.png You can see it taking shape in this exploded view. tyres 4.png
    Next is to work out how the glass will fit.
    here is where I am moving in to the unknown.. The wood is 15mm thick(front to back) but I don’t know the glass thickness. At the moment I’m working on 5mm thick but I may have made it over thick and 2 or 3mm glass would be better.
    I also have to decide how much I need to recess it in to the wood panels. At this time, I’m working on a 5 x 5 x 5 5mm wood, 5mm glass and 5mm beading… it may change yet pending details from a surviving item. IMG_4647.jpeg
    This then brings about the issue of how much overhang does the pane of glass need against the woodwork.

    I’m now aware it fits from the front and is then secured with a beading.
    IMG_4650.png
    And the work thus far.. tyres block instrument 1_1 v5.png

    just for fun, I thought I would do a render with a mock up of the display and knobs. The display is over size but it’s just for fun.


    Next is to break the parts back down and create a technical spec sheet where we have measurements etc to create the panels from when I take possession of the wood.


    Hopefully more soon.
     
  20. Gary

    Gary Wants more time for modelling.... Staff Member Administrator

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    Just read the whole thread and found it very interesting. Good luck with your project Andy and looking forward to reading more about it.

    Cheers, Gary.
     
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