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An NSR Absolute Block instrument

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous & Oddities' started by Andy_Sollis, Aug 5, 2023.

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  1. Sep 19, 2023 #41
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Have you seen the specifications his lists for transfers? All the gcse and a level computing and 3D cad work and he lost me at the third line. (I’ve never used cmky or what ever the colours are and don’t think my old paint shop pro program I use even supports that as export. )

    I’ll see what can be done on that. Transfers may be the modern way to go to replicate, but to be honest, that could well be the last bit of this project.
    Andy
     
  2. Sep 19, 2023 #42
    Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Andy

    It's pure gibberish isn't it. My understanding is he needs separate sheets for each colour so for the block instrument you need 4 sheets. white, black, green and red, he prints each colour individually so 4 passes through the printer. If you use something like pageplus you don't have to worry about cmky et al, but it ain't cheap, so draw up what you need printing with dimensions, fonts, colours etc and send me a copy, no promises but I will give it a go. It's a long time since I really got deep into pageplus my last book was published in 2013 so it will be an interesting (probably frustrating) refresher.
     
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  3. Sep 19, 2023 #43
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Thanks for the offer @Mossy I'll see what I can knock up next few days - sadly got a funeral in the AM so not much happening tomorrow
     
  4. Sep 19, 2023 #44
    Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    No problems just as and when I have enough going on as it is but having something different to do nicely breaks things up
     
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  5. Sep 19, 2023 #45
    York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Charging of batteries was undertaken by the S&T tech who would disconect the defunct dry cell DS1 batteries and replace with new every three months or so, DS1's were the big square lantern sort with yellow plastic tops rated at 9volt... the smaller round AR40 1.25v batteries were used on the ringing circuits of telephones and were responsibility of the telecoms lineman so you couldn't draw a feed from them for the blocks as they weren't designed for that usage. You'd often find piles of the defunct paper wrapped DS1's dumped behind the locking room wall or somewhere down the batter. Rechargeable batteries were of the Le Clanche wet cell type often used on track circuits in colour light areas or lever locks in AC power areas where there was a mains transformer supply fitted... these batteries had either glass or strong transparent plastic bodies and were a much more robust design. The ones I fitted in Chedd box came from Crewe South and had to have a constant trickle recharge or the plates would distort if power was turned off, these were a cost effective instalation for Cheddleton which negated the need for frequent expensive battery replacement, try telling that to know it all King Tut Tut who went into shock every time the leccy bill arrived. There was also the disposable dry cell nickel alcad type which had to be activated with distilled water and these were used in remote trackside location cabinets for feeds at the track circuit start point along side an adjustable resistance regulator when the circuit wouldn't shunt correctly due to wet rails and the such.
     
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  6. Sep 19, 2023 #46
    York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Don't forget that the Tyers One Wire Three position instument works on voltage fluctuation unlike other instruments which rely on a static supply.
     
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  7. Sep 19, 2023 #47
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes... I have no idea how I replicate this ! YET !:scratchchin::p:p
     
  8. Sep 20, 2023 #48
    Echidna

    Echidna Full Member

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    Dear Andy, re proposed Transfers, may I suggest that the "Up Line" & "Down Line" be designed in such a way as to be divisible, this may make them more suitable for other Instruments, I also think that your transfers would have a wider market than you may think, in that any preserved railway may need access to replacement transfers at some point in time. Additionally, as modern reproduction technology means that any transfer design can be either enlarged or shrunk, 1/2 and 1/4 size versions may also have a market, as their availability will allow more people to construct an "Instrument" whether it works per the prototype or not. Your restoration is coming along nicely, best wishes, Echidna from Australia.
     
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  9. Sep 20, 2023 #49
    Echidna

    Echidna Full Member

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    Hello All, Instrument batteries were changed out by the S&T/S&C fitter, as they were in a locked cabinet which was only accessible by an S&T key.Whilst I cannot now recall the changeover times (it was after all in 1974, and our batteries were swapped out for a power supply). Anything to do with maintenance of signalling equipment was (for obvious reasons) restricted to authorised staff. Regards, to all, Echidna.
     
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  10. Sep 20, 2023 #50
    York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    I still have a Union 442 key somewhere, would have got me into any locking or relay room and cabinet.:scratchchin:
     
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  11. Sep 20, 2023 #51
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    you may be right there, but looking at other instrument the Line blocked, line clear and Train on line divisions are in different positions on other block instruments. So drawing up for this one would be only suitable for this..

    however, that’s not to say they couldn’t be adjusted to suit.. not a bad idea!
    Andy
     
  12. Sep 20, 2023 #52
    Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    From my years as an Electrician in the printing industry Andy, CMY is the abbreviation for the primary colours, Cyan, Magenta and Yellow. Dunno where the k came from though!:hammer:
    Keith.
     
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  13. Sep 20, 2023 #53
    Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    K is the trick question, yes Cyan, Magenta Yellow but what is the K? K = Key or as mere mortals would know it BLACK
     
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  14. Sep 20, 2023 #54
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Indeed it is Key..
     
  15. Sep 22, 2023 #55
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Talking of Keys, Peter kindly sent me an S&T key down in the post!

    IMG_4779.jpeg
    the bad news is, it doesn’t fit though the back plate and must be a smaller size key.

    the good news is, if I unscrew the back plate and insert the key on to the little centralising pin and turn it, the lock works perfect. So we at least know the key profile to get a new key made.

    I did have a video, but no where to upload it to show it working.
    Andy
     
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  16. Sep 23, 2023 #56
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    As I have said previously, I have been drawing up the parts.
    As I had 3D drawn these as you have seen earlier in the thread I have now completed converting these parts in to working plans.
    12x A3 sheets with all bar 2 parts being 1:1 scale.
    IMG_4794.png

    the top section in tech drawing style.

    IMG_4795.png
    Showing one of the parts (sorry it’s just a screen shot as they export as PDF’s.) This is one of the front panels.

    just awaiting the wood now.
     
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  17. Sep 23, 2023 #57
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    I’ve had the “front off” today. IMG_4796.jpeg This is the reversed side. These are two small electromagnetic latches. These stop the needles moving to the default “Line Blocked” side. The rounded middle sits between a number of other magnets that make the needles swing when energised.
    IMG_4798.jpeg
    I have these rounded surfaces a good clean up as they were a little gunked. They will come apart again, but for now I’ve cleaned up so we get a smooth swing.
    IMG_4799.jpeg
    And here is the inside “gubbins” 4 solenoids per needle. They weren’t as bad as they look as some is just dirt when they have got damp and soon cleaned up with a bit of emery.
    IMG_4800.jpeg
    IMG_4801.jpeg

    I also had the volt meter out to test the resistance on the coils on the back of the front panel. I got vastly different readings.
    IMG_4802.jpeg
    this was the top one.
    IMG_4803.jpeg
    and the bottom.

    I may have tested on the wrong setting.. if anyone here knows … please post up!

    need to have a think where we go next.
     
  18. Sep 24, 2023 #58
    Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    I think you're on the correct setting for the second pic Andy, but it's odd that the first pic shows 749 ohms on the 200 ohms setting, unless the faint point between the 4 and 9 indicates 74.9. Might be just the angle of the photo. Without more details of the coil impedances, it's difficult to say wether both should be the same or wether one may have damage causing the different reading, and who's to know which, if either, is correct. Is there no coil impedance marked on the coils anywhere, it might be very faint? Any chance of your Scottish friend being able to confirm expected ohms readings?
    Keith.
     
  19. Sep 24, 2023 #59
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    no it was def 749!
    I’m waiting a reply back.

    These are from last time they were officially tested. 60 years ago!!
    IMG_4877.jpeg IMG_4878.jpeg

    I can only assume that it’s the 60 and 9 I’m looking at?
     
  20. Sep 24, 2023 #60
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Reply I had from Peter pre testing..

    “OK, these are the expected resistance values, for a "low wound" instrument, according to the BR Spec for Tyer's NSR Block Instruments. It also quotes the values for Maryport and Carlisle (M&C) and Furness Railway instruments. Your label calls the 'Latch Coil Bottom Dial' the 'Bottom Lock' and reports 60 ohms, but that's close enough to the specified 58 ohms. The 'Latch Coil Top Dial' or 'Top Lock' on your label, is correct at 9 ohms. The 'Operating Coils' and Polarising Coils are also correct at 14 ohms and 9 ohms. If you have a multimeter you can confirm that the coils are OK and give these readings.”

    IMG_4879.jpeg
     
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