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My DCC Journey

Discussion in 'DCC Control' started by Tallpaul70, Mar 15, 2019.

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  1. Dec 11, 2019 #41
    Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

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    Hi Keith,
    Respraying strikes me as a messy process for which you need an area where it doesn't matter if the paint drifts on the air! I don't have such an area and remember when I did do some spraying a number of years ago, it was difficult to get the thickness of the paint right (mine always ran, or didn't cover the subject correctly). I don't like mess (and my wife hates it!). So I shall need a lot more persuading that I can really get good results and save money. Besides which I have plenty to keep me occupied in aspects of modelling I do enjoy:-
    I have a large fleet of wagons and stock to convert to Kaydees (and I only do them in rakes, keeping the original couplings except where I need to uncouple.)
    I have a lot of scenic work to do on sub boards that will fit to my layout which is being built by others much more proficient at carpentry, track laying and electrics than I (I discovered this the hard way, and in my 70s I don't have time to scrap any more layouts that fail to function.)
    I have a timetable to finalise for the layout, deciding timings, stock , motive power etc. Operation is my real interest.

    I also have a house to maintain, a family that I cannot ignore, and a wife whose health is sometimes not the best.

    Added to which I enjoy visits to preserved lines, exhibitions and the like.

    I sometimes wonder how I ever found time to work!

    I am not miffed at the small number of replies to some of my posts , just when you spend time three months in a row providing insights into what you are doing and no one replies to any of them, you wonder why you bother!

    Best regards
    Paul
     
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  2. Dec 11, 2019 #42
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    1.
    No issues. Only on code 75 I think.

    2. ha.. it’s your layout, run what you like, only you can pick fault. (And anyone who wants to say otherwise should stay quiet... as I found the hard way o_O)

    3. personally I wouldn’t as I know they sound very different. The large engine in a 31 is nothing like the small raspy engines in a DMU.

    I’d look for a supplier of possibly sound only decoders. I’ve seen some in the past and we’re much less than a motor sound decoder... and they did a dmu as I wanted one for a 108.

    as Paul said later, sometimes no response is not we’re ignoring, just nothing constructive/or helpful to say.
    :thumbs::thumbs:
     
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  3. Dec 11, 2019 #43
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Out of interest Keith, how did you do that? I have 3 to do some time.
    And love the blaster Bates quote! ;)
     
  4. Dec 12, 2019 #44
    Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Ah, another "Blaster Bates" Fan! Saw him years ago at the 'Winding Wheel' in Chesterfield......hilarious!
    Regarding DCC fitting to Bachmann's 'Split Chassis' loco's, basically you need to completely isolate the two chassis halves from the motor, so you start by dismantling the chassis into the 2 halves, removing the small spring contacts to the motor from each chassis half, then soldering a wire to each motor terminal. You then need to create enough space to take the wires out from the chassis halves, which normally means cutting a small groove or worst case, chopping a small amount off the chassis halves to allow clearance for the motor wires.....best to 'heat shrink sleeve' them from the motor terminal end to be safe. After that, these 2 wires go to your DCC decoder output, next you'll need to connect a decoder input wire to each chassis 'half', ensuring on reassembly that there is no short circuit between either the 2 chassis halves or the motor terminals. You can either use solder tags trapping each under one of the insulated 'nuts' on assembly (one wire to each chassis 'half', of course), or failing that, just twist up each wire into a ring tag shape, tin it then trap as per the solder tag suggestion. The only other problem that might arise is finding enough physical space for the decoder itself, which just might be the hardest thing of all in the smaller loco's, but you need to be 'creative' in finding space, may even have to resort to a little 'Butchery' to fit one in, but needs must! I've just won a new Hornby 'Terrier' in the "Brighton Works" form, not a split chassis loco, but one where there seems to be no space at all for a decoder as it's not DCC-able apparently, but as far as I'm concerned, I haven't yet met a model that can't be converted......there will be a "How-To" in due course when I get around to it, but presently I have a few 'projects' which are part-completed.......so many models, so little time!
    If you get stuck with a 'split chassis' project Andy, just shout out, I'm not far from you and am happy to pop over and help/advise if needed.
    Keith.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
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  5. Dec 12, 2019 #45
    Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi Paul.
    Sounds not unlike my situation generally! My spraying takes place in the 'railway room' itself, I do have a 'spray booth' with extract fan (only a 'cheapo' I hasten to add!), but it's something you could probably quite easily make up yourself, and using acrylic paints which are thinned/cleaned up with water and Isopropyl alcohol, there's no smell and unless you have an accident or are clumsy (as I am on occasion!), then there's no mess. The outlet hose from my spray booth goes out of the Velux window when spraying (my 'room' is in the loft!) and the space I have to work in is in the middle of my layout (16ft 6in x 12ft 6in and 3 ft wide all round), so I don't have acres of space to work in, apart from ensuring I don't step back too far and fall down the loft hatch!!!
    Like you, I've converted to Kadee's on my sizeable rolling stock stable (64 coaches, lost count of the wagons!) and approximately 110 loco's and counting, though I can't be bothered with timetables, and in fact I've done very little actual running in the last 18 months or so since I've been sidetracked into loco kitbuilding, which I admit I enjoy more than the actual operation side. I am perhaps lucky that my trade was an Electrician so the electrics side of things is no problem to me, once again I'm happy to advise if anyone has problems, and I also have a Wife, and a Family who live within a 15 mile radius, with weekly "Grandchild care" commitments, like you I am keen to visit preserved lines, which I often manage to incorporate into our holidays (fortunately my Wife enjoys the steam rides) and as you may have seen, I do enjoy going to exhibitions and meeting up with fellow modellers, having met with a number of forum members at various times. I never worry if anyone bothers to read my blatherings, but hope that a few folks may find something of interest and possibly pick up a tip or two, as I have over the last 6 or so years. Please carry on with your updates Paul, there is I believe, more interest than you may think, just that as has been said, there may be little that anyone can add at the time.
    Regards.
    Keith.
     
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  6. Dec 12, 2019 #46
    Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

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    Cheers Keith,

    Yes, I have some way to go with my 100 plus locos both in terms of Kaydees and sound.
    I am afraid I don't have the courage to try spraying at the moment. later in 2020 when my layout is up and running I might take another look at it. However my space is more limited. The layout (which is 12ft x 8ft) with boards between 2ft 6ins and 2 ft wide, has a centre which is some 7ft x 5ft. While I don't have a loft hatch to worry about falling down, I would have to run the outlet hose some 6ft diagonally across the layout to the nearest window opening. Not sure if they have hoses that long?

    I was interested in what you said about chips in split chassis locos . That is something I might give a go. I suppose it is not so difficult (apart from space considerations!) if you just think that if the chassis is split then both halves need to be wired to the chip in parallel?

    I have yet to meet up with any forum members face to face, but Hopefully I can arrange something for Ally Pally in March.

    I might try another update after Christmas, no time for it now!

    Best regards
    Paul
     
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  7. Dec 12, 2019 #47
    paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi Paul

    Sticking with Acrylics allow "in house spraying" almost odour free.

    I also use a spray booth evilbay link and have no problem spraying in any room usually in the Mancave (or study as the boss prefers to call it - with a very sacastic inflection), and my son has even used it in his bedroom. Enamels - are an out side job, even with ducting going outside the smell is a bad heavy smell that takes ages to disperse.

    I like Tamiya paints, thinned approx 50:50 with Tamiya X-20A thinner, give a really fine light even coat. Undercoat I use either Tamyia Acrylis Flat Grey or Humbrol Matt Grey Acrylic (01 - I think) the Humbrol needs thinning down more to somewhere between full fat milk and semi skimmed.

    The secret is lots of light coats, I have a lazy suzanne (a rotating table) which was included in the spray booth, raise the model off the deck of the lazy suzanne, then apply a very light coat to side a, rotate 90 degrees, do side b, rotate 90 degrees, do side c, rotate 90 degrees, do side d, a quick flash on the top then a quick look at the sides (a first) and it should be ready for another light coat, if its not dry (should have a matt / flat look) either its a very small model or your coat was too heavy. If you have a dual action airbrush, you can spray just air to help dry the paint (if it causes the paint to run, again it's on too thick. Recently when visiting York Paul, he asked me to try out his airbrush, so our crash test dummy was a O gauge CCT. Primer - can't remember the make but may have been a rattle can (I'm sure Yorkie will correct me). Two thin coats with approx 15 min between coats - this was done outside in the garden, on a day without rain or high winds (I know, the gods were looking down and smiling on us). Left for half an hour (roughly a cup of coffee and a blether - so not a very definitive time :whatever:).
    Then on to the top coat, paint thinned, and tested on a sheet of paper to check the coverage, and that it's not spattering. Then applied to the model, approx 3 thin coats before the primer was covered. Allowed to dry for 20 min, then the next thin coats applied - colour looked good, again allowed to dry for 20 min to see if another series of coats were required. All in all less than 90 min. If we were doing more at the same time the waiting time between full coats would be masked.

    The next stage would be to gloss coat the model, to allow the transfers to be applied (the gloss varnish helps make the transfer backing dissapear). Another gloss cote to seal the transfers.

    If the model is to left as is, then a coat of either matt or satin varnish to dull down the gloss varnish.

    However if you want to use washes (great for emphasising panel lines etc), this is best applied on to the gloss surface - the capillary action on the wash spreads easier on a gloos surface. Then seal with a matt varnish, apply any sprayed weathering, then weathering powders, and finally seal with matt or satin varnish ....... simples :whatever:, but fun learning as the weathering process applies to all vehicles so a good technique to learn.

    Any mistakes can be stripped back and start again.

    Paul
     
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  8. Dec 12, 2019 #48
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    My issue was how to get the power from the blocks. I did one years ago and tapped it for a new screw (not very successfully) as it seems to be a very hard metal!
     
  9. Dec 12, 2019 #49
    paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi Andy

    For my Bachmann V2, I split the chassis apart, wrapped the motor in insulation tape (1 layer), I think I was lucky enough to have a tag for the bogie connections to link up to, but may have also soldered the wires to the chassis - I do have one rather large soldering iron.
    More interestingly I had several failed insulated screw bushes - so I printed up some on the 3d CTC printer. If you want the files I will look them out to send you.

    Paul
     
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  10. Dec 12, 2019 #50
    Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    That may be useful. Yes.. thanks..

    Tried to solder but won’t grab...

    Need a new decoder now as it was an old £9.99 Hornby one where the wires kept breaking off at the decoder. o_O
     
  11. Dec 13, 2019 #51
    paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Now I just need to find the file :facepalm: - probably still on my old PC :whatever:

    Paul
     
  12. Dec 13, 2019 #52
    paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Andy - PM sent
     
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  13. Dec 15, 2019 #53
    Tallpaul70

    Tallpaul70 Full Member

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    Hi Paul,
    I have a few issues regarding spraying, not though with your clear write up above:-

    1) Unfortunately I don't have a whole stack of time with nothing to do without impinging on other activities, so I would have to decide what modelling activities, out of all that I do being activities I enjoy, do I give up to make time for spraying, which from past experience I don't think I will enjoy as I didn't on previous attempts?

    2) The models I need spraying are not simple small one colour wagons. They are complex liveried 1990s and 2010s Locomotives and coaches. Thus a lot of time would be spent in masking between colours. Overall spraying time would be extended. So I would need to find a number of simpler models to practice on. So even more time before I get the items sprayed I need sprayed! (Never mind the extra time for weathering!)
    3) I am sure the type of items I need sprayed will require good quality and therefore expensive equipment. A window in the railway room will need modifying to allow the output from the spray booth to be output without having a window open (otherwise I could only spray in warm weather!). If I need 30 items done will I really save that much?

    I am trying to keep an open mind, but I see no point in paying for other jobs that I enjoy, to be done by others, to free up time to do an activity that I doubt i will enjoy!

    Also, I am not looking for a business to run spraying for other people!!

    Sorry
    Paul
     
  14. Dec 15, 2019 #54
    paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi Paul

    As you say it's one of the decisions that only you can make.

    Cost vs time is an issue for us all to varying degrees. You don't need the most expensive kit, the airbrush and compressor I use cost approx £70.
    I use my spraybooth indoors, without external venting and have no issues - read complaints from the boss.

    Spraying is a skill and needs practice to get acceptable results.

    So I suppose the choice is do you want both periods available or migrate fully over from your present period to the new one, and the time frame to complete the migration.

    Toto, on his recent change to O gauge went for the fast route and sold all his OO stock in a job lot as selling them individually would/could have raised more cash, but would take a lot longer to complete.

    As you say, more challenging deliveries will take more time, and only you can decide if it's worth the effort. Personally I enjoy learning new skills and like the challenge, and actually doing spraying quite relaxing, as you become focused on the spraying the model at hand. Like you I have no intention of doing it as a business, but also don't want to spend as much on getting someone else to paint as I spent on buying/building a model, maybe living in Scotland for 35 years is rubbing off :avatar:

    As the saying goes you pays your money and makes your choice.

    Paul
     
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