3D model tweaking

Discussion in '3D Modeling Projects' started by paul_l, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Just back from the morning taxi run .......... :whatever:

    The texture unfortunately is caused by the print head movement - the re4sin prints are just like staffy red marl bricks - smoooooooth


    By using plaster or resin casting, once the masters have been completed - time to print becomes less relevant as its a one off, and each set of castings will only take a few hours to produce.

    Paul
     
  2. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Applied a little paint to see the effect

    First up the Resin based OO gauge models

    Thin base coat of grey, then a coat of Red Brown sealed with matt varnish



    Then a wash of diluted dove grey emulsion



    Same process for the O gauge FDM prints





    Grey wash





    Once dry I will try and wipe off the top coat from the brick surface

    Paul
     
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  3. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    They look alright. A bit of flash to clean up especially within the windows but I think you could achieve a good finish. We'll done. :thumbs:
     
  4. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Having seen the Shapeways models and then your resin one, i much prefer those finished over the FDM.

    The resin model has a nice finish...

    What could I do to the O gauge one to make it print quicker? I’m not really a fan of too many parts, that’s why the idea behind these was “paint and plant” rather than build... but if that’s the route I need to go down for the larger kits... well, i’ll have to change my modus operandi...

    I wonder what my O gauge Consall would look like as that has a detailed interior. (Booking office internal panelling) (don’t worry I’m thinking out loud)
     
  5. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    As I mentioned earlier, I could print them with the Resin printer, then you create a silicon mould for each part or assembly, then cast them in either plaster or resin. Of course this depends on how many you want to make, but I'd imagine between yourself and Yorkie you'll need to do a few std knotty signal boxes.

    Resin printing the cabin in OO took approx 2.5h and approx 2 hrs for the roof, again the roof would be a prime candidate for casting

    Paul
     
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  6. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    The way forward with these kits (O Gauge) would be to make an investment mould in which the inner core supported by a Plaster of Paris jacket was made using artists Gellflex, this medium could be reused again and again and of course multiple moulds could be made so several units of the same pattern could be poured at the same time. Small amounts of Gellflex can be cut into cubes and heated on a primus stove, for big stuff a Gellflex pot heater is best. All very simple stuff to do but the result if done properly is outstanding quality.
     
  7. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

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    I am currently doing similar, making a master (by hand rather than 3D) and making a mould so many can be cast in herculite. Given my use of gun silicon has severe limitations and RTV is very expensive, my next venture may well be with a hot melt Vinyl Compound, but I will use red Vinamold, as its half the price of Gellflex.
     
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  8. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Gellflex is more expensive because it doesn't loose definition if you need to use the mold more than a few times... I've used Gellflex molds when pouring UV clear casting resin which creates an isothermic response when curing, the Gellflex was able to withstand that punishment without giving me a casting failure. Not saying Vinamold won't work for you Timbersurf but if you want to make more than eight or nine casts from the same mold then prepare to mix and match quality.:thumbs:
     
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  9. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    To be honest, I was a little disappointed that we were needing to look at going down the casting route of moulds. That’s not what I set out to do. I’m still reluctant, but not dismissive, so.....

    I’ve spent the last hour with the O gauge box spliting it down in to panels, lower front/back etc Upper front- you get the picture. Floor , internal roof, porch.

    I’m a little unsure what to suggest re the roof.

    Anyway, I’ll post some photos in a while to explain more what route I’m trying to help you guys go down. As I say, it may not be what I wanted to do, but I have to not be closed minded and listen to others. (To be fair I’ve been listening to Paul B since I started these dam signal boxes and he’s been good with me for ideas and info, so going once more with a suggestion can’t do any harm.. right?
    :thumbs:
     
  10. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    OK, so I've used a bit of colour to show the panels up (all the base ones are the same colour, but four separate sides- I just didn't think they needed colouring.

    You will note that I have now made the door a separate item from the porch in to the box so it can be posed open or closed. there is an issue re structure strength if I were to do it with the outside porch door. - there are also one or two thin areas that I'm a little concerned over, so until there is a test, we wont know if I've got it right or wrong. windows also separate that slot in at the rear to a set depth. small mod to the cabin roof internally and externally and both the OO and O had the lip beefed up. I don't think this should be an issue in O, but can be printed from the flat top side. 16 parts in total instead of the original 5.

    andy

    Blythe bridge x1.jpg Blythe bridge x2.jpg Blythe bridge x3.jpg
     
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  11. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Wonderful stuff Andy and I do like the different colour schemes on display... ranging from early NSR Duck Egg Blue, LMS Middle Brunswick Green and Light Buff for country stations right through to BR Gulf Red... and just to broaden the range more you've even got Porterbrook Mauve for that modern era setting. :avatar::avatar::avatar::tophat:
     
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  12. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Well, like a bit of variation. Doesn’t tie the period down lol

    I’m still not convinced this will totally work as if you mould the outside of the upper level, you won’t have the chimney breast and skirt which the floor goes up to.
     
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  13. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

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    Why won't you have the chimney breast and skirting? Can these items not be made as separates?

    Yes Rule One applies paint it whatever colour you wish to:avatar: which is why when I get to make my NSR New M loco I shall paint it in Corporate Blue with large logos and Stratford silver roof... I might even name it ... something like Stainless Pioneer:giggle::giggle::giggle:
     
  14. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    They could, I was just thinking re the moulding and that the back (inside) surface would be smooth.

    This was where the 3D printing bonuses over the old techniques and why I didn’t want to go down this route... but if needs be and it cuts costs we cut details.

    Or... we continue with the resin prints, but as there are smaller parts, (but now more) they may print differently. And if one deforms there is less loss.. only one side etc rather than a full top or bottom as Paul L found.

    We shall keel thinking and trying. I’m not giving up Paul... but it sometimes gets you down.
     
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  15. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

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    I think you are doing a terrific job and being very hard and demanding of yourself Andy. You are just experiencing some minor setbacks but You'll nail it. It looks like a really great design and is well worth the percevieranse. It may be advantageous trying a slight change in method / medium as although it may not be what you envisaged, it may pay in terms of experimentation to get your kit over the line.

    Keep plugging away. :thumbs:

    Toto
     
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  16. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    Sorry Guy's I've been awol on this thread recently.... :whatever:

    But I have been busy tweaking 3D printer settings.

    Now I am new to this Resin printing lark, and while printing parts up for the Cl 26 & 27 builds a weird process was happening.

    I had up until now had a 100% success rate on prints completing without error, so I had printed the windows and cab roofs, and tweaked with the angle the models were at to get the best quality of print.
    Then I started to print the smaller items, with some completely failing - the whole print stuck to the film base rather than the build plate, some parts breaking off the plate part way through and some printing without issue, and not always the same ones :facepalm: :hammer:

    Tried different things, and as these were pretty well welded on to the film, I eventually damaged the film removing the parts from it.

    So now back to basics.

    Replace the damaged film - wish I'd seen this video before doing the change - however my new film is drum skin tight.



    Now go through the printer base leveling.

    Cleaned all surfaces with IPA, and once dry, used a glasses cleaning tissue on the print screen and both sides of the Vat's film.

    Ok lets go again - nope failed, but this always used to work, so to regain some sanity I tried to reprint the cab roofs - nae problem :hammer:

    Up until now I had always used the same printer settings for the rafts and supports Thin 0.7mm raft with 0.5mm supports at 20% density.
    The print settings were standard

    AnyCubic Green Resin
    Layer height 0.05mm
    Normal exposure 10s
    Off time 1s
    Bottom Layer exposure 50s
    Bottom layers 8

    Lots of trials later

    To keep the raft stuck to the print base I increased the Bottom exposure to 55s

    All the rafts now remained in place but items were still breaking off

    I tried increasing the density of the supports from 20% to 40% - this generally added an extra support, improved but still not all parts remained attached.

    Finally test was to increase the raft & support setting from Light to Medium, still not fully successful, so went up to the Heavy setting, the raft was now 1.4 mm thick and the supports 0.8mm in dia, again at 40% density :worship: :worship: :worship: :cheers: it worked

    So a bit of reverse logic, for the small parts I've had beef up the supports.

    Three sets of prints later and were still in business.

    Paul
     
  17. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    Did you get the replacement files for Blythe Bridge box?
     
  18. Mr Porter

    Mr Porter Failure is always an option. Full Member

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    That's just plain confusing. It's counter intuitive having to put a curve in something that is supposed to be flat.

    Jim
    :headbanger:
     
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  19. Andy_Sollis

    Andy_Sollis Staff Member Moderator

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    I thought that, but they kind of gloss over the fact that the skin dropped in to a channel where the lip was proud so it then tensioned it.

    Quite clever!!
     
  20. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    I didn't know about leaving putting a bottle top under the frame, and when I started to tension it up it is like a drum skin.

    A tip with these you should hear the print ping away from the film, no sound and the print has stuck to the film.

    With the resin printers it seems to be recommended practice to print everything at an angle, even at 0.05 layer height the results are impressive, I have yet to try 0.02 layer height.

    Hi Andy, I have downloaded a set of prints for Blythe Bridge dated the 20th Jan.

    With all the faffing around, I've not had time to play on these files - possibly Sunday, as Toto is visiting tomorrow.

    Paul
     
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