Mossys 3D Models

Discussion in 'Workshop Benches' started by Mossy, May 19, 2022.

  1. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Yes they parallel to the horizontal, I saw the mistake a few days ago but forgot to get around to fixing them yet, so thanks for reminding me.

    The boiler stays turned out to be much simpler than I expect once I had got my brain around the problems, that took a lot of tea and nicotine this morning. Basically I was just making it to complicated.
     
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  2. paul_l

    paul_l Staff Member Administrator

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    I'm with you on that one - I have both the T shirt and annual subscription to overthinking and finding the hard way.

    We'll get there ...... eventually :avatar:

    Paul
     
  3. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    My version of a blower valve which sits on the side of the smokebox, at the moment it's in multiple parts as when done the adjustable rod on the left needs to match up with .7mm handrail wire. The end section of the adjustable rod is .7mm and in theory would be a butt fit to the handrail. Will it work who knows but such is life, it's another detail that could benefit from being lost wax cast. As for size the spherical object is 3mm in diameter.

    Blower 1.jpg
     
  4. Tom Burnham

    Tom Burnham Full Member

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    Blower valve enlargement from photo of NER Class A No. 674 -

    VR_P14_001_edited-5 - Copy.jpg

    And drawings from a Class W pipe and rod arrangement. The diameter of the valve scales at around 2.4mm. Notice the dimension of 2.5" from the smokebox wrapper to the centre of the valve.

    34552905156_cc43eb76b3_o_edited-3.jpg 34553326536_28e41f5b9a_o_edited-1.jpg

    Tom.
     
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  5. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Blower Valve rebuilt using Tom's photo of 674 and the class W diagram.

    New Blower 1.jpg New Blower.jpg
     
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  6. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    I've just been stocking stock of where the loco is up to, and unless Tom does another magic rabbit trick I think the boiler is pretty much done, blower valve on the drivers side, westie exhaust running along the drivers side (the pump was initially in the cab and I bet the crews did have ear defenders). The only thing left to firm up is the position of the two feed oil box and were there one or two? Pretty much done - those are famous last words.

    Boiler drivers side.jpg Boilwr Drivers Side.jpg

    There is more detailing work to do on the body, mainly the pipework for the Westie brakes. Of the numerous photos Tom has supplied me with, all the pics of class A's in LNER days have up standing Westie pipes. There are 4 in NER days and two have up standing pipes, 2 undershot pipes. One of the undershot pipes is 490 in outshopped grey I assume that's one of the first batch of 10 the other is 674 which appears to be in TW Worsdells purple and green livery. Is it also one of the first 10? If anyone have access to the RCTS Loco's of the LNER section which covers F8 can they see if it lists the engine number of the first batch of 10 please.
     
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  7. Tom Burnham

    Tom Burnham Full Member

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    "unless Tom does another magic rabbit trick I think the boiler is pretty much done"

    The first 10 to be built and released into traffic between March and June 1886 were Nos. 72, 187, 262, 485, 575, 671, 685, 801, 490 and 674 so you can safely use the photo of N0. 674, resplendent in T. W. Worsdell claret and green livery, as a basis for your model.

    The layout of the cylinder/slide valve covers is a little more complex than you have represented them. The casting for the cylinders/slide valve extends beyond the edge of the smokebox wrapper and occupies the space between the wrapper and the frames. There is a row of six bolts set vertically unto this casting/cover. Part of the casting extends upwards with the slide valve covers bolted to it and the wrapper has had to be partly cut away to accommodate it.

    NERA1450-049_edited-3.jpg

    The slide valve covers also extend beyond the sides of the smokebox wrapper and the tops of the cylinder covers are flattened off where they join except for the top bolt which is interlaced with the slide valve cover.

    NERA1450-058_edited-4.jpg


    There are no visible rivets on the polished smokebox hinge straps and the ends are splayed to pass either side of the hinge point. Not a great photo but this Class A has had extra bling added to the smokebox door!

    NERA1450-056_edited-1.jpg


    Tom.
     
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  8. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Tom

    I knew you would, just when I was thinking of doing some more fiddling with the chassis - ok challenge accepted. At this rate it's going to be the most detailed loco I have ever gone near but I haven't a clue how to print it and get all these bits printed clearly.

    A couple of questions for you:
    The lubricator on the smokebox below the blower valve I have a pair cast in white metal but would prefer brass, what's the name of them I have completely forgotten it.
    The small 2 feed oil box, yes it seems to migrate from the back of the smokebox to back of side tank and finally (I think) to the front of the side tank, but were there a pair of just one. I have tried to figure it out on the GA but failed miserably.

    Cheers mate

    Mossy
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2022
  9. Tom Burnham

    Tom Burnham Full Member

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    The lubricator is a displacement lubricator used to supply oil to the cylinders. As you can see from the photographs a variety of models were used from different manufacturers. I believe the one on No. 674 is of the Rosco pattern. There's one on each side.
    Unfortunately the General Arrangement drawing isn't very clear and omits a lot of the pipe and rod detail that would be available on a separate drawing but I've not been able to locate one for the Class A. The small two feed oil box on the rear of the smokebox that can be seen peaking out behind the front spring will be there to lubricate the piston rods and valve gear and again there will be one on each side. The oil box that was on the back of the tank which moved to the front, I believe, would have lubricated the horn guides on the driving axles. This photo of the preserved J72 shows the typical arrangement but in this case the oil boxes supplying oil to the horn guides are located on the sides of the frames.

    Tom.

    RIMG0207_edited-1.JPG
     
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  10. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Roscoe rings a bell thank you, now to find who sells them. 2 oil pots it will be!

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2022
  11. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Happily making models Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    Laurie Griffin has them.

    You can of course make your own easily enough, brass bar, scrap etch and microbore tube...
     
  12. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Rob,

    If you have a 3d printer, need I say more? Designed so I can add or subtract oil ports as required.
    The debate that Tom cleared up was simply were there 2 or just the one, none of the diagrams or pics show them clearly.
    As in a previous post they seem to migrate where they are positioned as time goes on, these are going on the back of the smokebox, the only question is will they be part of an integrated print or printed stand alone.

    oil box 1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2022
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  13. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Happily making models Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    Sorry,
    I misunderstood your, "now to find who sells them" remark.
     
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  14. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Hi Rob,

    Cross purposes I was thought you were talking about about the small oil pots, you were on about the displacement lubricators. LG 15-035 LSWR & others Adams & Drummond locomotives look exactly like the NER ones - another bit to add to the required bit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
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  15. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    A combination of pre-Christmas family duties and for once a lack of motivation to play with Fusion 360 has meant very little progress with the class A, some of Tom Burnhams changes have been done, but nothing is completed. I have instead been thinking about and putting together a list of the extra bits needs beyond those that will be 3d printed. It’s an evolving list but leaving aside wheels and coupling rods current it looks like this:

    Clack Valves
    Whistles
    Handbrake
    Westinghouse Pump (might have a spare)
    Handrail Knobs (med and lge)
    Displacement Lubricators
    Fire Irons
    Lamp Irons
    Backhead and fittings (might have a spare)
    Injectors
    Any other cab bits?
    Tank filler caps
    Blower Valve
    Underslung Westinghouse Pipes
    Buffers

    Given this is trying to be a classic Yorkshire man’s short arms long pockets build the piggy bank will need a second raid after buying the wheels etc. I also think I need to get the tank filler and blower valve brass cast, parts of theme are just too vulnerable for 3d printing.

    So why the posting? I was packed off into the attic yesterday to get the Christmas box down and sitting on top of it was a small resealable bag labelled loco parts which of course was also salted in my pocket and brought into the daylight. Almost all in brass.

    3 sets of clack valves
    2 sets of whistles
    2 sets of displacement lubricators (one white metal)
    2 Blower valves
    A Roscoe cover and lever
    A set of NER brakes and hangers
    A set of fire irons
    2 Backhead injector taps?
    Various Westie, vacuum and steam pipes (sadly no underslung ones)

    Most appear to be from Ragstone a couple are LG Miniatures but a nice surprise and I didn’t know I had them and can’t remember buying them but Christmas has come early and the shopping list reduced by quite a bit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2022
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  16. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    After yesterdays discovery a few questions for the experts:

    The only coupling rods I can find are from Slaters and at £8 must be etched brass, does anyone know of a source of milled fluted rods - 8ft 1 1/2".

    Lamp Irons - going through the photos Tom supplied 2 of the NER photos (from the first 10 built) and one of the LNER photos all show side mounted lamp irons. The only source I can find is LG, but at an eye watering £12, does anyone know of an alternate source?

    For Tom - again going through the photos the blower valve appears to be polished brass i.e. unpainted - true or false?
    The photos are unclear but would the first 10 be fitted for steam heating?

    Morality the displacement lubricators aren't Roscoe pattern, should I use them or go for a set of LG ones at £8
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2022
  17. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Happily making models Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    I am pretty sure that the Slaters coupling rods are actually etched steel. And of course once made up actually look like the real thing. If I could find which safe place I had put mine in I would confirm it.
     
  18. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Happily making models Staff Member Administrator Feature Contributor

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    If steel, they are best soldered using Bakers fluid for flux.
    Your post has reminder me that I need to measure those handrail knobs for you too.
     
  19. Mossy

    Mossy A classic grump Yorkshire man Full Member

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    Thanks for that Rob, sounds like they will be fine and cheaper then milled ones. I will have to dig around for bakers fluid never heard of it.
     
  20. Tom Burnham

    Tom Burnham Full Member

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    "For Tom - again going through the photos the blower valve appears to be polished brass i.e. unpainted - true or false?
    The photos are unclear but would the first 10 be fitted for steam heating?"


    The blower valve is polished brass as were other brass fittings like the displacement lubricators and the safety valve cover.
    Steam heating only began to be introduced in the 1880's and I can only see one visible pipe, for the air brakes, on early photos. The locos would have had steam heating added as coaches were converted or introduced.
    In this later photo of No. 674 it has acquired a different pattern displacement lubricator on the smokebox. There may be a steam heating pipe just visible below the buffer beam.

    TS14-065_edited-1.jpg

    This close up of No. 72 shows the fitting in a similar position

    NERA1450-004_edited-3.jpg

    and an earlier photo of No. 72 with steam heating hoses. The Westinghouse pump has been moved to the front of the left hand tank and the displacement lubricators on the smokebox have been removed.

    NERA1450-012_edited-1.jpg

    Tom.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2022

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