Class 24 build... oh no not another Stoke engine.

Discussion in 'Kits, Kit bashes & Scratch builds' started by York Paul, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    And the rest of the pics Steve ...... :avatar:
     
  2. SBt

    SBt Full Member

    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    288
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    Ah yes - that pic is one of the old Resin Cast one's I first produced taken about this time in 2004. The next year I started designing the brass ones!
     
    York Paul likes this.
  3. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Looks very good. Most of the detail being held on the undercarriage but a very nice build all the same. Thanks for posting it up.

    Cheers

    Toto
     
  4. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Quite agree Toto, the proof is in the bogie detailing... just stunning and scary to see how realistic they look, I'll show folk what I mean with finished bogie pictures soon. Now the etches compare as some of the best around for accuracy of fitment, also in representational true scale too but the with CAD drawing and digital technology as it is now there is no reason why things shouldn't fit as intended. After all the builder is creating a model copying the exact same principles used in making the original full size version.
     
  5. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Thanks for that info Steve... I figured extra the holes in the outrigger ends were for the boiler drain down pipage.
     
  6. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    The picture of the 24 looks amazing Steve... thanks again for the share.
     
  7. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Now I took this picture specially for Toto as I know how much he intends to install some in his own bench space, the sun shone brightly and with the blinds turned slightly open some wonderful dappled shadow effects were cast over the Long Shed work space. :avatar::avatar::avatar:

     
    jakesdad13 and Rob Pulham like this.
  8. Keith M

    Keith M Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,461
    Likes Received:
    2,911
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2015
    I would suggest linking up both sets of bogie pickups Paul, rather than one set to one motor at each end, otherwise in the event of a temporary loss of contact on one pickup set (and a stopped motor on that bogie), you'll be relying on the other bogie/motor to drag the loco onto a cleaner bit of track or similar, which will certainly affect smooth operation and might cause a supply surge on the stalled motor's DCC decoder when it's supply reconnects. When I built my Bulleid "Leader", although it uses 2 decoders, one for each motor, the pickups from each bogie are connected in parallel so as to avoid this kind of problem, since it's unlikely to lose contact on both bogie wheelsets at the same time.
    Keith.
     
    Rob Pulham and York Paul like this.
  9. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Thanks Keith that is something I hadn't realised... so wire in parallel each pick up set and send to motors as one circuit ? Sorry 'lectrics are still a bit of a learning curve for me . Any chance of a wiring diagram anyone please? Thanks in advance.
     
  10. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

    Messages:
    720
    Likes Received:
    436
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2018
    Toto's question about flywheels has got my cognitive juices flowing! Is the subject the same for OO gauge and N gauge? What is the prerequisite to fitting one? Why did they only add them in recent years? Does a 'Stay Alive do the same thing or is that the alternative if DC?
    I will have to do some research and will probably do a write up on my website. I guess in reality, there is no substitute (only add on get around fixes) for clean track and multi wheel pickups! {I have designed a few DRUPS systems in industry in the past, so it is a subject of interest to me!}
     
  11. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Having sorted some invoices with SWMBO this morning I declared this afternoon workshop time what with the weekend and a Bank Holiday on Monday I'm hoping to move this loco build forward quite a bit. I wasn't totally happy with my attempt at the first bogie end stretcher build which holds the "seahorses" in place, a rethink was required and this is what I came up with. Now I am much happier with the result which is clean and neat with a crisp finish. Here is the second bogie stretcher with base plate soldered in place and the etch forming the end face placed equally in position underneath the notched cut outs I mentioned yesterday.


    So I ran solder along the centre section taking care to avoid filling the locating points for the seahorses which can be seen in the polybag.


    Then the flared ends were bent into shape with light pressure from the rounded end of a needle file, this gave the correct curvature ready for soldering, if the thin strip across the base plate end becomes kinked it can be carefully flattened afterwards.


    Finally all soldered up fettled and washed to remove excess acid flux the underframe is now ready for the next stage of the build.


    The underframe is checked against my flat stone which is a great guide for locating areas on the etch which may have become accidentally bent, anything untoward can be gently put back into flatness now.


    Finally the underframe is screwed to a nice flat piece of timber. I started with the four centre points and drove the screws home with a slightly outward lean, this is to avoid the etch becoming "bunched up" in the middle. Next I screwed down the near ends using the bogie pivot hole as a holding down point. Remember all screws must not be fastened down tight on the underframe and particularly over the bogie stretcher fabrication as any pressure distortion will affect the way the finished loco sits on its bogies. I left this piece to "settle down" on its new wooden bed for a while... why I'm here posting up this... now back to the bench with a cup of tea and back to soldering in the strengthener bracing and cross pieces.

     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
    Rob Pulham and jakesdad13 like this.
  12. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    As you know Timbersurf the idea behind the flywheel is using centrifugal motion to rotate the motor if current is momentarily lost through a dead spot, the O gauge ones fit the thicker O Gauge motor shaft and the OO Gauge ones work in the same manner but are smaller allowing for the OO Gauge motor size. In many ways the Stay Alive like those supplied by DCC Concepts are a much better alternative in overcoming dead spots but it is always a good insurance when operating in public to avoid those frustrating and embarrassing Hand of God push along moments. Even with clean track and a level rail top tiny gremlins can sneak in unannounced to cause havoc for an operator.
     
  13. Timbersurf

    Timbersurf

    Messages:
    720
    Likes Received:
    436
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2018
    As no one else is forthcoming, I rustled this up for you

     
    York Paul likes this.
  14. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Thanks Timbersurf that's great and much appreciated too. :tophat::thumbs: I suspect the others are all down the pub this evening.:avatar::avatar:
     
  15. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    I'm not convinced it would need two decoders. Can you give me a dunce proof explanation behind the theory of that please Keith. trying to get my head round that.

    cheers

    toto
     
  16. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    I got on pretty well making up the underframe members this evening, I started out at the boiler end of the frame soldering in segments that make up the longitudinal beams. I use a simple square block of wood to act as support holding these pieces upright to form a 90 degree angle. Simple and it works.


    Having completed all the pieces for this task I turned attention to the central cross braces, there are three of these and the middle one is slightly different in that it has two extensions that face towards the boiler end of the frame... I came close to making a king size cock up as I was about to solder in a near similar part which is designed for a Class 25. So for folks building the Class 24 version you need item number 37R and not item 37 which is for the Class 25.


    And here is the frame located on its bed... this is the result of an evenings work, now I'm going to unscrew the work piece off the bed and give it a good wash down in hot water to remove the flux residue.


    Right straight out of the wash nice and clean ready for refixing onto the bed tomorrow and carrying on, and just a quick check on the flat stone that everything is sitting straight which I'm happy to say it is.



    With a bit of luck I'll complete the frame bracing and longitudinal beams and fix the buffing frame on as well... then on with the small detailing bits and bobs.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
    Rob Pulham and jakesdad13 like this.
  17. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Very nice. A big difference once it's cleaned up. You can see the strength starting to come into the build. All subsequent add on sections will only serve to give it more rigidity.

    Looking really good York Paul. :thumbs:

    Cheers

    Toto

    Ps ..... thanks for pointing out the difference in the 24 / 25 parts. I think Steve mentions it in the destruction s but it's good to have that reinforced at the correct stage of the build.
     
  18. Toto

    Toto I'm best ignored Staff Member Founder Administrator

    Messages:
    15,419
    Likes Received:
    3,842
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    On your last post, second photo down, I see what looks like a small piece of scrap brass sitting on the frame. Where did that come from. Did you make a slight modification at all?
     
  19. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    I think what you are seeing is part 37R which is the middle centre stretcher base piece which I mentioned earlier, this piece is to be found on the right hand end of Skeleton Fret 2 which also carries the buffing frame extensions parts 101. This was where I nearly made a mistake by fitting a similar part number 37 which is to be found on Skeleton Fret 3... this is the part for a Class 25 which has a redesigned undercarriage.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
  20. York Paul

    York Paul Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,827
    Likes Received:
    6,909
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    I've just taken these two pictures to show part 37R located with the under carriage loosely sitting on the bogies. The picture Steve showed us yesterday deals with the boiler end of the under carriage, this is where I will add a special gusset mid right of the bogie stretcher to carry a drain down pipe. I've already taken this into account and will discuss this aspect later today as it also involves which bogie stretcher side pieces go where, I've purposefully not discussed this as yet so as to not confuse matters. This is why it is so very important to read and understand the instructions because if this part with the additional end hole has been soldering in on the wrong bogie then you will either have to make a non-boilered 24 or unsolder both stretchers and start again.


     
    Rob Pulham and jakesdad13 like this.

Share This Page